Accessibility & Inclusion
Episode Show Notes
On this PodOn episode, we chat with podcasting veteran Sage Levene, a broadcast manager and producer at Morey Creative Studios. In this episode, we’ll sit down to learn and discuss a widely unaddressed issue within podcasting: accessibility. Even though podcasting has transformed into a huge industry, it is far from being inclusive, especially for audiences with disabilities. The content we put out there should be available for everyone, and it is our responsibility as creators to be the first ones to reflect on our own accessibility. Listen now to learn how you, the curious scrappy podcaster, can become a part of a much-needed revolution of the industry, and transform it into a welcoming space for learning and entertainment.
Jump straight into:
(00:52) - A podcasting veteran: how trends have shifted in the industry through time - “The trend is that the bar has just been raised exponentially.”
(06:41) - Sage’s advice for branded podcasts - “Produce content that maybe isn’t’ going to get you the most leads but it does establish you.”
(09:42) - The unthought accessibility problem of the podcasting industry and Sage’s five-step guide to reverse it - “If every podcaster out there just said ‘Hey, I’m gonna learn how to make my podcast accessible’, it would be the norm.”
(18:09) - The need for an entire movement towards normalized accessibility: “If corporations like Spotify want to be an industry leader, they have a great chance here to set an example for every other app and company out there that is producing podcasts.”
(21:10) - The gray areas of inclusion: “A lot of people, when they think about podcasting, they think about it as ‘It’s an audio medium, why would someone who can’t hear want to listen to a podcast?’, but it’s not as black and white.”
(24:24) - It’s all about starting and attempting to make a change: “There are ways that help podcast discoverability and also help accessibility, so it’s kind of a no brainer for the creators out there.”
(27:38) - On Sage’s advice for the curious, scrappy podcaster - “The barrier to entry is low, but the barrier to discoverability is high. You want to make sure you’re doing it justice.”
Resources
How to Create an Accessible Podcast by Sage Levene
Connect with Sage through LinkedIn
PodOn is hosted by TJ Bonaventura and Julian Lewis, founders of the full-service podcast company based in San Francisco, StudioPod. If you want more details on how to fully record and produce your podcast with our services, you can reach us at http://studiopodsf.com, send us an email at info@studiopodsf.com or contact us through our social media channels as @studiopodmedia. Music by GaryOAKland.
Episode Transcript (via Rev.com)
Sage Levene:
A lot of people, I think, when they think about podcasting, they think about it's an audio medium. Why would someone who can't hear want to listen to a podcast? Well, it's not as black and white, it's just like this person can't hear. There's all different levels of hearing disabilities, and additionally, people who have cognitive disabilities.
TJ Bonaventura:
This is the PodOn Podcast. We're your host, TJ Bonaventura, that's me, and Julian Lewis.
Julian Lewis:
That's me. As founders of a podcast media company, we had to start a podcast.
TJ Bonaventura:
So join us each episode as we in our guest drop knowledge on podcasting for you, the curious and scrappy podcaster.
Julian Lewis:
Welcome back to the PodOn Podcast. We are excited today to talk with Sage Levine. I first stumbled upon Sage Levine when she wrote an article in Podcast Movement regarding accessibility, and so I reached out because I wanted to learn more. But before we dive into that, Sage, why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself to our listeners?
Sage Levene:
Sure. So I'm Sage. I am the broadcast manager for Morey Creative Studios. We're a HubSpot Partner Agency located in New York. And we do web design, content creation, but we also have a podcast department and that's what I run.
Julian Lewis:
So tell us a little bit more about Morey Creative Studio and what exactly it means to kind of run that studio.
Sage Levene:
Sure. So we have kind of a long, storied history. Our founder, Jed Morey, he founded the Long Island Press, which is a newspaper on Long Island. It was one of the top alt weeklies when he owned it. And that's where we started. So strong roots in journalism. From there as print died, we kind of moved over to becoming a digital agency and that's where we are today. So, we found HubSpot, which for people who don't know, it's a CRM, CMS, so we build all our websites on there. We're just like a typical marketing agency, but we focus on inbound content creation. When I started, I started as a designer. But over the time that I was there, they realized that I was passionate about podcasts.
Sage Levene:
I've been listening to podcasts, I think, for 12 or 13 years since I was ... For a long time. I don't know how I started listening to them, but I just found them and I've been listening ever since. So when they found that out, they were like, we're serious about podcasting. We had two podcasts at the time, one that I produced called Inbound & Down and another one our social justice podcast called News Beat. So those were the two we had running. I started producing. And then from there, when we realized we should get serious about it as an offering, they asked me to lead it. So I lead our broadcast division, which also includes our video, so we produce videos for clients. And that's really where we are today.
TJ Bonaventura:
So I want to go into since you've been in podcasting for quite a bit now a lot longer than most people have. What are some trends that you've seen? Because you're working with it sounds like a perspective of with corporate clients, potentially. Right? So we're starting to see podcasting go from just individuals who want to talk about a project that they're passionate about, to now corporations and organizations now using it for their brand awareness efforts, and even more so now with everything going on with the global pandemic. So can you talk a little bit about like what you've seen, what Morey is working with in terms of creating content for those organizations or individuals who want to get involved in podcasting?
Sage Levene:
Yeah. Definitely. So you're spot on there about corporations using podcasting. I think they've realized it's a way to get in their consumers ears in the way that television can't because we skip our ads. No one watches commercials anymore. And if they do, they're not paying attention, they're on their phones. With a branded podcast, which is a podcast that could be sponsored by a corporation, people are listening. And regardless if it's exactly, we always use the example like a whole foods podcast, they're not going to say, okay, check out what we have in this aisle. It's going to be about a sustainable lifestyle or organic produce and that type of thing, which just kind of folds people more into the brand and becoming brand evangelists.
Sage Levene:
So kind of the trend we've seen is bigger organizations and corporations using podcasting as a way to build their following to build evangelists. It's something we talked about internally because HubSpot, they pioneered inbound marketing, which is marketing that is holistic and helpful. It basically you want your customers to come to you rather than you going to the customer. So instead of billboards and cold calls and direct mailing, you're creating content that they want to they want to listen. They want to listen, they want to read it. So podcasting is just the next logical extension of inbound marketing, so it kind of all fit together.
Sage Levene:
So seeing the trend of more companies like I even saw I think Kraft is doing a new branded podcast. It really is an amazing way to engage with listeners. And I think the trend with the individual consumer, or the individual person who's creating a podcast, not you guys necessarily because you're podcasting experts, but your friend who wants to create a podcast about sports, I think the trend is that the bar has just been raised exponentially, because it's no longer acceptable to put out a low fidelity podcast. It's no longer acceptable to just have an unedited three-hour rambling podcasts because no one's going to listen. So the trend is just if you really want to do it, you need to do your research, you need to have the right equipment, and you need to be talking about something. What's your edge initiative? So I think that's been the trend in podcasting in the last couple years.
Julian Lewis:
I absolutely love the idea of using it as like a way to create content so you can get those inbound leads. Coming from a sales background, and we often reference it on this show that like both TJ and I were coming from the sales side of kind of the digital industry or like the technical industry, I guess, if you want to call it that, and like for me to have to find the contact, call somebody and be like, "Hey, do you want to buy this?" It's really hard. Like, the most qualified lead is somebody who already knows about your company. And so using podcasting, where they can hear your voice, and it doesn't have to be exactly like we have produce on aisle X. It's like talking about what the company believes in, and then people fall in love with your podcast, they fall in love with your company, it just makes it that much easier for them to buy. So I absolutely love seeing this trend and I love that you identified that.
TJ Bonaventura:
I want to talk about just really quickly some creative ways that you've seen organizations do branded podcast. Because I think too often, Julian and I, we've talked this before in previous episodes, is everyone's trying to figure out like what the silver bullet is to make a successful podcast. But I think that's what makes the industry really unique is that there is no silver bullet. Everyone can do an episode of a show that is as long as they want, as short as they want and as creative as they want. So have you had any experience with any companies doing really just interesting things in the podcast industry?
Sage Levene:
So that's an interesting question. Specifically, our clients know, I mean, not that it's not interesting, but we're not working with the whole foods of the world, necessarily. I think you're definitely correct in that there is no formula. So I think what makes it interesting is when you really can figure out what you're speaking to. So I like to think about ... I mean, in podcasting, if someone asks you the biggest trend right now, you probably say true crime, at least that's what I'd say. So there are just a thousand true crime podcasts out there. I mean, there's a lot of stories to be talked about. But I think the people who have found success in it, they're telling the story properly. So it's not just people reading off Wikipedia, it's creating a narrative, fleshing this story out. So I think that's one thing.
Sage Levene:
I also think with the branded podcasts, with corporations, what they can do best is kind of almost not have it be about them at all, like I said, but even take it a step further. So I remember MailChimp sponsored a podcast a little while back. I can't remember the name of the top of my head, but it was about music, which has nothing to do with MailChimp. They're an email marketing platform. But they used their name, they used their contacts and got music professionals and people you'd want to listen to. And it's just kind of a brand awareness thing. So I think that's something that's really interesting that's happening is kind of producing content that maybe isn't going to get you the most leads, per se, but it does establish you. And then you can create the podcast that is about email marketing. So I think that's something that type of formula is really successful.
TJ Bonaventura:
Yeah, that's a great point. I think that last thing there is, don't feel like you have to do one series to conquer them all. Like, if you're a corporation, why not have one that's more dedicated to the brand awareness, branded content. And why not do one that's more specific to the users of the content or driving more leads. We have a client right now that wants to use podcasts as a replacement to their annual marketing conference.
TJ Bonaventura:
So instead of doing all their budget for one specific week where they're going to have all their potential leads coming into one spot, let's just do a continuous series where we're going to give them more awareness about what they're doing with their clients, what they're doing with the product, what the roadmap is, what the CEO is thinking about, so on and so forth. So I think it's really interesting. But I know that's not why we had you on the podcast. We had you here for a specific reason. I want Julian to take this one.
Julian Lewis:
So Sage, we brought you here today to talk about how to create an accessible podcast and we definitely want to dive into that. But I think first and foremost, we want to learn from you, what is accessibility and then also, why is the podcast industry well-positioned to have a major impact on that?
Sage Levene:
Yeah. It's a big question to answer what is accessibility, but we can flashback a little bit to actually 30 years ago, this year, the Americans with Disability Act was created. And that was more about infrastructure and architecture, so making sure there are ramps where there are stairs or elevators. And when it was created, the internet really wasn't a thing. It was very nascent, if not widespread access. So because of that, the web kind of got left behind. So in 1999, the web content accessibility guidelines were created and that was specifically about the web.
Sage Levene:
So it just means web accessibility, digital accessibility, all synonyms, it just means that everywhere technologies, apps, websites are accessible to people with disabilities, so simply that. And the reason you might not think about podcasts as included in web accessibility, but when you have a podcast, unless you're burning it to a cassette, it is only accessible online or on an app. So it's kind of this siloed medium, that if we don't apply the same guidelines, it's inaccessible. I was thinking, why is podcasting ripe to move this forward? I realized, I mean, there's a lot of different ways, but one of that I realized and it's kind of what we touched on before is that podcasting is an industry of self-learners.
Sage Levene:
So most of the people out there, they didn't study broadcasting, they've never done radio before. They were people who said, I have an idea. I'm going to research microphones, I'm going to think of a topic, I'm going to listen to other interviewers, figure out how to interview people or figure out what I'm just going to talk about myself, and they did it. So there are over a million podcasts. That's a million self-learners out there. So if every self learner just said, hey, I'm going to learn how to make my podcasts accessible, it would be the norm. And then I'm sure some of those overlap with web designers. And then maybe every web designer out there could learn to create a inaccessible website.
Sage Levene:
It's interesting to talk about because accessibility is really something that's not taught in school. I went to school for graphic design, and I took web design, and I wasn't taught anything about this, and most designers aren't. And even when you do like coding boot camps, they're not teaching you how to design accessibly. So it's something that we have to sort of get in the zeitgeist so that way people want to learn about it in school, and hopefully, almost like it's a little backwards, but then there will be schooling about it and accessible podcast will be taught in broadcast classes. So I think that's where I discovered the idea and, and as a podcaster, myself, I produce podcasts, it just seemed second nature that these should be accessible as well.
TJ Bonaventura:
I'm glad that you decided to write the article, and it's very timely because of the recent lawsuit that went against Gimlet Media. I don't know every detail with that lawsuit, but I know they were sued for not having their podcast be accessible, if I'm not mistaken. So I guess the big question is, how can podcasters make sure that their shows or episodes are accessible?
Sage Levene:
Right. So it's another big question. I think the number one way is transcripts. And I believe that is what Gimlet was sued. I think it was a class action suit, because they did not have their podcasts transcribed. And I get it. It's a long arduous process to transcribe your podcasts, especially if it's an hour long. And there's machine learning out there that can do it. But then again, there's the argument that if you don't correct that, go through, make sure you have names correct or the words correct, it's not fully accessible because you're not delivering the same experience.
Sage Levene:
So number one, is definitely transcribing. So that's what I recommend. And then the other things that kind of mentioned in the article, get a little more technical, like making sure that your artwork is accessible. So when you're on Spotify or Apple podcasts, and you're browsing for a new podcast, if you're just looking without ... You might search for a specific topic, or you just might say, hey, that looks interesting, just like when you're in a bookstore, and the thing that catches your eye is the artwork. So if your artwork isn't accessible, people are never going to listen to your podcast. People might not understand what inaccessible artwork is, but if the text is too small, if the color ratio is off.
Sage Levene:
So I think it's like 25% of men in America have red/green colorblindness. So if you're using those colors, everything will just look gray. Someone could just see a gray square and be like, I don't know what this podcast is and I'll never listen. So that's a great place to start. Another place is having your website be accessible. And that one is definitely a heavier lift because if you're just a podcaster out there, you might not know how to code an accessible website. But there's tons of organizations, tons of companies like my agency, there's tools you can use like Audio AI, which is an accessibility tool. They have like a managed service feature where they can basically tell you the recommendations to make your podcasts accessible. And luckily, with a podcast website, it might be a smaller site, you might not have hundreds of site pages. So it might not be a crazy lift there.
Sage Levene:
And then social media, and this is something I was talking about internally with my organization yesterday, is that we don't really think about social media as being another means that people with disabilities would want to use because it's visual. But people with screen readers can still use social media and you can employ alt text across all your social media. So if you look on Twitter, they have an option to add alt text, same with LinkedIn, same with Facebook. And you can also if you're posting a video, add transcripts to the video, you can embed them or you can upload the SRT file. So those are a lot of ways. I know that was a lot to digest in like two minutes. But that's the quick five steps that I would recommend.
Julian Lewis:
Yeah. Those are all great things. The moment you sent the article, I sent it directly to TJ, because he had come to me a while ago when we first started talking about like what we wanted StudioPod to be. And for me, I was really keen on the idea of making sure that we're building like a diverse company, in background, diverse in ideas, diverse in like the way people look and what industries are coming from. And he came to me and he talked to an experience that he had, [inaudible 00:16:42] speak to, but it was around accessibility. And for me, like working in digital advertising, I had heard it before. And I had more of an idea, like for the cover art, for example. And like how two colors blend together and making sure that you're conscious of that. But beyond that, like it wasn't my first thought. And so I'd love for TJ to kind of talk about that experience and why we decided that we really want to focus on it.
TJ Bonaventura:
Yeah. It first came to me when I had a friend who is suffering from a degenerative disease where she's losing her eyesight and hearing. And she came to me and says, "I love podcasts but I know I'm not going to be able to follow them in the future because they're just not accessible. Like I wish there was something that I could follow along with the transcript that would allow me to essentially read as I'm hearing it. And as I lose my hearing, I could still follow along." And right away, I sent it to Julian, like we got to think about something like this because it is so true. There is no true accessibility within podcasts.
TJ Bonaventura:
You did mention, Sage, that there are ways to do transcription through rev.com is a very popular one out there, which is machine learning. There's another tool out there called Descript, which will ... It's not meant for accessibility. But if you go through and read it and you're able to change the text as you listen, it then will allow anybody with that public link to be able to watch or read as they're listening as well and the words will follow along. So that's another way for our clients to potentially use it or anybody out there that wants to use it.
TJ Bonaventura:
I guess, with the recent lawsuit that came with Gimlet, I'm assuming that that class action lawsuit was strategic. They're the biggest podcast production company out there. They're owned by Spotify. Where do you think that this is going to potentially go? Do they think it's going to be more prevalent? Are companies thinking about this? Like, what are the trends going forward within this? In your opinion, of course.
Sage Levene:
Yeah. I think just like with web accessibility, to pull from that frame of reference, because it's kind of there's more history there, bigger companies were getting sued. Domino's, Beyonce, like people who couldn't access the websites. They were getting sued, which brought it to the forefront of a lot of people's ... A lot of companies, they were worried about the legality and getting sued and the monetary cost. So I think, just like that, podcast will start to follow along as well. I think corporations like Spotify, they're going to have to make everything accessible, including their app, which I don't know if it's fully accessible or not. Right now, I think they're working on having transcripts in app, I've read that. But they're going to have to kind of shape the way they're doing it.
Sage Levene:
They're investing billions of dollars in podcasting. So if they want to be this industry leader, they have actually a great chance here to set an example for every other app, every other company out there that's producing podcasts. So I think more and more people are going to kind of get on board with this. It's actually something that I wrote about an article as well that there isn't a fully accessible podcast software out there right now. There is no solution that is their media player, like the embedded one is accessible. Their back end with the analytics is accessible, their front end user website. So it's a market gap that someone could jump in and say, hey, this is the first successful podcast solution from A to Z. I think, Spotify, I guess technically they could be hosting since they have Anchor, but it's a little limited. They could be if they wanted to.
TJ Bonaventura:
I think that's a great, great point. I think Spotify or Apple, it's going to be one of them as the market leaders who are most podcast listeners are going to listen to their podcasts are going to need to make the changes. So those like my friend who has Usher syndrome to be able to read along or listen to along or be able to make sure that maybe it's a quick, like you said, you'd mentioned there's a tool that we'll be able to convert different podcasts to be accessible for those who are colorblind. There's got to be some sort of change.
TJ Bonaventura:
That's why I would imagine someone came after Gimlet or the class action suit came after Gimlet because they have to deal with Spotify and Spotify can hopefully make the change and they have the resources to do so. But until someone does, everyone's going to stay static, unfortunately, which I hope there's got to be networks to get involved, StudioPod got to get involved, different production companies got to get involved to really put it in the forefront of, let's make sure your podcast is going to be available to anyone out there.
Julian Lewis:
I do want to just take a quick step back with all your tips in terms of how we could add StudioPod, as we're working with different partners who are creating podcasts can start to help with the accessibility piece. So from a social media like promotion side of things like an audiogram with what's being voiced is being transcribed on there is one way to do so, if I heard you properly and then with the actual podcast itself. Would you recommend putting the transcription in the show notes or having it live like on the website so somebody can like listen on and kind of read? Because it gives like the format for a longer episode to be able to read the whole thing. I just want to make sure that we're clear on that so we can start doing that.
Sage Levene:
Yeah. That's a great question and not one I have a definitive answer to because I'm not sure that people would be reading along in app, but I don't know for sure. But as far as putting your transcript on the website, regardless of if you're putting in the app, also, you should definitely put on the website because there is so much SEO power. So for maybe just podcasters and not people in the marketing space, it's search engine optimization and it's basically functioning as a blog. So a lot of people, they don't really do full workups with their podcasts that describe it, they just put up the show notes. Because the search engine reads it, they read the content. And if I search for podcasting and accessibility, if you have the transcript, your blog could be served and people are reading that discovering you. So regardless of putting it in app, definitely put on your website.
Sage Levene:
I've been wondering about that a lot myself if there is a value to putting it in-app. And it's something I'd love to have some more like user research to see if some people would be interested in that. I do think that apps might start delivering that themselves. Because all the apps, I mean Google, they're transcribing all the podcasts anyway. You see, if you search for something, something podcasts, we now have a podcast carousel on Google, which we never had. You have to be very deliberate about what you're searching for though, so I'd have to search for accessible podcast podcast, which is I guess it's a little confusing. And then this podcast might come up.
Sage Levene:
But eventually, if I'm just searching for podcast accessibility, you might also have the podcast carousel there. So there's a lot of stuff happening behind the scenes there in terms of transcripts as far as accessibility and as SEO. And then another great point that I hadn't even thought about but I was discussing, and it is in the article, is that people who aren't native English speakers. If you're an English speaking podcast, they can ... It helps them. It helps them familiarize themself with the language, and it helps them follow along and understand.
Sage Levene:
A lot of people, I think, when they think about podcasting, they think about it's an audio medium. Why would someone who can't hear want to listen to a podcast? Well, it's not as black and white, it's just like, this person can't hear. There's all different levels of hearing disabilities, and additionally, people who have cognitive disabilities. If you like to read along, as you listen to digest content, that's another reason to put it there. So there is really no answer to that question, but it's important. That's all I could say.
TJ Bonaventura:
The one thing that I think there ... I mean, there's an, I don't want to say an easy sell, because I'm not a product manager at Spotify or anything like that, is they are releasing a video to be accessible or available within their app. So that's a good way where maybe if you're doing video, you can transcribe it like you would do an audiogram but it would just be more of a longer form piece of content. Or instead if you don't want to film yourself, you just put up the transcript right there. So as you would listen to almost like a music video on YouTube that has just lyrics, you'd be listening to a podcast that has just a talk track of everyone that's participating in that particular show.
TJ Bonaventura:
So I think there are ways that people can be creative to make sure that they are accessible. But again, it goes back to the point of making sure that these players are accessible themselves. So that way, the networks, the producers, the editors, and everyone else can follow along to make sure that they are accessible as well.
Sage Levene:
Yeah.
Julian Lewis:
Yeah. And to give like a tangible way of like that we've creating our audiograms just to help people, like TJ mentioned the tool, Descript. So once we have the audio from this podcast, we upload it into Descript and transcribes it. And it's a way that we can edit it in line. But the beautiful thing about it is like when I create an audiogram, I take a segment of it, I paste it in its own composition and I do a little bit of editing. And then I essentially have the ability, and I'm pointing at a screen that's not here, but I have the ability to download not only audio, but also to your point, Sage, the SRT file.
Julian Lewis:
And so I can use that to create an audiogram in a tool like veed.io and/or, as you mentioned, some of the social platforms are allowing for you to insert that SRT file as you're creating the post. And so it's really that simple to start. There's definitely a long way for us to go in terms of like transcribing the full episodes and putting it on our website and making sure that we have the capacity to do so. But starting is like the key and then continuing as technology evolves to make it easier for you to make your podcast more accessible.
Sage Levene:
Yeah. And I think another kind of good tip is YouTube, which you mentioned before. You can upload, let's say you make a YouTube, the dimensions for YouTube of your artwork, you upload that with your episode audio. YouTube does have an automatic transcription feature, you put it in, and you can fix it there. That's also another SEO way because YouTube is the second largest search engine. So you put it there, people are discovering your podcast. So there are ways that help podcast discoverability and also help accessibility. So it's kind of a no-brainer for the creators out there. And I think, Julian, what you said about starting is really important, because if you're a podcast and you have 5 seasons and 100 episodes, it seems really daunting, because there's a whole backlog. But just start with the next episode and start with the next episode.
Sage Levene:
I've heard of other podcasts that fans, they love it so much, they'll transcribe things for you. I mean, I'm not saying do like a paid and exposure type. But sometimes people are interested because they want to get involved. And when they hear it's a mission that you have to make it accessible, they want to help. So there's definitely ways to engage your community if maybe you don't have the time to sit down and transcribe 700 hours of content.
Julian Lewis:
Sage, this has been all extremely valuable information. TJ and I have action items that we're definitely going to take from this. And we'd love to hear any other advice that you'd love to give the curious and scrappy podcaster, who's our audience.
Sage Levene:
Yeah. I mean, I think we covered a lot of ground here. So definitely check out the article. Not to plug myself necessarily, but I do think it lays it out in a more linear fashion that might be easier to digest. But if you're just out there doing a podcast by yourself, find a community, find maybe people who are passionate about also creating an accessible podcast and brainstorm with them. I think in general, if I had overall podcast advice, it's quality. That might sound a little harsh, but you don't have to release all of your early episodes. You could do 50 test episodes and then start releasing them. Because there are a million podcasts and the barrier to entry is low, but the barrier to discoverability is high.
Sage Levene:
So it's really exciting to create a podcast, especially when you have something you're passionate about. But you want to make sure you're doing it justice. So if you're going to be the only podcaster talking about this really niche thing, make sure it's a great podcast. Accessibility is part of that. So it should all be part of this grand plan, of quality content, quality audio, and making sure everyone can enjoy it.
TJ Bonaventura:
Amazing. Sage, thank you. How can anyone reach out to you? Obviously, you have the article, but specifically, if someone wants to have a further conversation or reach out to you, Morey Creative Studio, how can I do that?
Sage Levene:
Sure. So I'm actually not a huge social media person myself, which is kind of funny. So I don't really have personal social, but you can definitely connect with me on LinkedIn. If you just search for me Sage Levene or at moreycreative.com. And I would love if everyone took a listen to our podcasts. We have three in house podcasts that I'm very proud of. So we have one called Inbound & Down, which is we talk about accessibility a lot. We talk about marketing, SEO, design, anything in that kind of greater industry.
Sage Levene:
We have one called Grow For Good, which talks to owners of for-profit businesses who are doing good in the world. So we've talked to the CEO of HubSpot, we talked to the CEO of Bombas, the CEO of American Organic Energy. So a lot of these really great companies who have really good social mission, so it is also kind of relevant to accessibility because it's all about inclusion and doing good in the world.
Sage Levene:
And then we have our third podcast called News Beat, which is a social justice podcast. And it combines hip hop and news. So they interview different scholars, different journalists, any expert. And they have local, usually to New York hip hop artists create lyrics specifically about that topic. So their stuff is so engaging and fun. I work on and I help. I don't produce it specifically, so I feel okay to like really tout it because I'm a fan more than I am just like nepotism, it's my podcasts. But they're doing great stuff there. So that's how you can find me.
Julian Lewis:
That's awesome. And while you're doing that, I think you got a subscriber at least For News Beat, but I'm sure you got one for the other ones, and you'll have one in me as well. So Sage, thank you again so much.
Sage Levene:
Thank you. It was my pleasure.
TJ Bonaventura:
In this episode, we talked about the Usher syndrome. And so I want to give a quick shout out to the Usher 1F Collaborative which is a patient-led research network. I mentioned my friend, Dori, she has Usher syndrome, and we recently did a fundraiser for her at my local gym. It was such a fun experience. And so if anyone wants to go and support Usher syndrome, they can go to usher1f.org. Julian and I, on behalf of StudioPod, will be making a donation. But again, if you want to go and donate to that cause, it's super awesome. Again, it's patient-led and it's usehr1f.org. That's U-S-H-E-R-1-F.O-R-G. Usher1f.org.
Julian Lewis:
Thank you. PodOn.
TJ Bonaventura:
Every episode of the PodOn Podcast is produced and edited by StudioPod Media. For more information about our work and our clients, go to studiopodsf.com.
Julian Lewis:
Shout out to Gary Oakland for the fire track.
TJ Bonaventura:
Gary O.
A lot of people, I think, when they think about podcasting, they think about it's an audio medium. Why would someone who can't hear want to listen to a podcast? Well, it's not as black and white, it's just like this person can't hear. There's all different levels of hearing disabilities, and additionally, people who have cognitive disabilities.
TJ Bonaventura:
This is the PodOn Podcast. We're your host, TJ Bonaventura, that's me, and Julian Lewis.
Julian Lewis:
That's me. As founders of a podcast media company, we had to start a podcast.
TJ Bonaventura:
So join us each episode as we in our guest drop knowledge on podcasting for you, the curious and scrappy podcaster.
Julian Lewis:
Welcome back to the PodOn Podcast. We are excited today to talk with Sage Levine. I first stumbled upon Sage Levine when she wrote an article in Podcast Movement regarding accessibility, and so I reached out because I wanted to learn more. But before we dive into that, Sage, why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself to our listeners?
Sage Levene:
Sure. So I'm Sage. I am the broadcast manager for Morey Creative Studios. We're a HubSpot Partner Agency located in New York. And we do web design, content creation, but we also have a podcast department and that's what I run.
Julian Lewis:
So tell us a little bit more about Morey Creative Studio and what exactly it means to kind of run that studio.
Sage Levene:
Sure. So we have kind of a long, storied history. Our founder, Jed Morey, he founded the Long Island Press, which is a newspaper on Long Island. It was one of the top alt weeklies when he owned it. And that's where we started. So strong roots in journalism. From there as print died, we kind of moved over to becoming a digital agency and that's where we are today. So, we found HubSpot, which for people who don't know, it's a CRM, CMS, so we build all our websites on there. We're just like a typical marketing agency, but we focus on inbound content creation. When I started, I started as a designer. But over the time that I was there, they realized that I was passionate about podcasts.
Sage Levene:
I've been listening to podcasts, I think, for 12 or 13 years since I was ... For a long time. I don't know how I started listening to them, but I just found them and I've been listening ever since. So when they found that out, they were like, we're serious about podcasting. We had two podcasts at the time, one that I produced called Inbound & Down and another one our social justice podcast called News Beat. So those were the two we had running. I started producing. And then from there, when we realized we should get serious about it as an offering, they asked me to lead it. So I lead our broadcast division, which also includes our video, so we produce videos for clients. And that's really where we are today.
TJ Bonaventura:
So I want to go into since you've been in podcasting for quite a bit now a lot longer than most people have. What are some trends that you've seen? Because you're working with it sounds like a perspective of with corporate clients, potentially. Right? So we're starting to see podcasting go from just individuals who want to talk about a project that they're passionate about, to now corporations and organizations now using it for their brand awareness efforts, and even more so now with everything going on with the global pandemic. So can you talk a little bit about like what you've seen, what Morey is working with in terms of creating content for those organizations or individuals who want to get involved in podcasting?
Sage Levene:
Yeah. Definitely. So you're spot on there about corporations using podcasting. I think they've realized it's a way to get in their consumers ears in the way that television can't because we skip our ads. No one watches commercials anymore. And if they do, they're not paying attention, they're on their phones. With a branded podcast, which is a podcast that could be sponsored by a corporation, people are listening. And regardless if it's exactly, we always use the example like a whole foods podcast, they're not going to say, okay, check out what we have in this aisle. It's going to be about a sustainable lifestyle or organic produce and that type of thing, which just kind of folds people more into the brand and becoming brand evangelists.
Sage Levene:
So kind of the trend we've seen is bigger organizations and corporations using podcasting as a way to build their following to build evangelists. It's something we talked about internally because HubSpot, they pioneered inbound marketing, which is marketing that is holistic and helpful. It basically you want your customers to come to you rather than you going to the customer. So instead of billboards and cold calls and direct mailing, you're creating content that they want to they want to listen. They want to listen, they want to read it. So podcasting is just the next logical extension of inbound marketing, so it kind of all fit together.
Sage Levene:
So seeing the trend of more companies like I even saw I think Kraft is doing a new branded podcast. It really is an amazing way to engage with listeners. And I think the trend with the individual consumer, or the individual person who's creating a podcast, not you guys necessarily because you're podcasting experts, but your friend who wants to create a podcast about sports, I think the trend is that the bar has just been raised exponentially, because it's no longer acceptable to put out a low fidelity podcast. It's no longer acceptable to just have an unedited three-hour rambling podcasts because no one's going to listen. So the trend is just if you really want to do it, you need to do your research, you need to have the right equipment, and you need to be talking about something. What's your edge initiative? So I think that's been the trend in podcasting in the last couple years.
Julian Lewis:
I absolutely love the idea of using it as like a way to create content so you can get those inbound leads. Coming from a sales background, and we often reference it on this show that like both TJ and I were coming from the sales side of kind of the digital industry or like the technical industry, I guess, if you want to call it that, and like for me to have to find the contact, call somebody and be like, "Hey, do you want to buy this?" It's really hard. Like, the most qualified lead is somebody who already knows about your company. And so using podcasting, where they can hear your voice, and it doesn't have to be exactly like we have produce on aisle X. It's like talking about what the company believes in, and then people fall in love with your podcast, they fall in love with your company, it just makes it that much easier for them to buy. So I absolutely love seeing this trend and I love that you identified that.
TJ Bonaventura:
I want to talk about just really quickly some creative ways that you've seen organizations do branded podcast. Because I think too often, Julian and I, we've talked this before in previous episodes, is everyone's trying to figure out like what the silver bullet is to make a successful podcast. But I think that's what makes the industry really unique is that there is no silver bullet. Everyone can do an episode of a show that is as long as they want, as short as they want and as creative as they want. So have you had any experience with any companies doing really just interesting things in the podcast industry?
Sage Levene:
So that's an interesting question. Specifically, our clients know, I mean, not that it's not interesting, but we're not working with the whole foods of the world, necessarily. I think you're definitely correct in that there is no formula. So I think what makes it interesting is when you really can figure out what you're speaking to. So I like to think about ... I mean, in podcasting, if someone asks you the biggest trend right now, you probably say true crime, at least that's what I'd say. So there are just a thousand true crime podcasts out there. I mean, there's a lot of stories to be talked about. But I think the people who have found success in it, they're telling the story properly. So it's not just people reading off Wikipedia, it's creating a narrative, fleshing this story out. So I think that's one thing.
Sage Levene:
I also think with the branded podcasts, with corporations, what they can do best is kind of almost not have it be about them at all, like I said, but even take it a step further. So I remember MailChimp sponsored a podcast a little while back. I can't remember the name of the top of my head, but it was about music, which has nothing to do with MailChimp. They're an email marketing platform. But they used their name, they used their contacts and got music professionals and people you'd want to listen to. And it's just kind of a brand awareness thing. So I think that's something that's really interesting that's happening is kind of producing content that maybe isn't going to get you the most leads, per se, but it does establish you. And then you can create the podcast that is about email marketing. So I think that's something that type of formula is really successful.
TJ Bonaventura:
Yeah, that's a great point. I think that last thing there is, don't feel like you have to do one series to conquer them all. Like, if you're a corporation, why not have one that's more dedicated to the brand awareness, branded content. And why not do one that's more specific to the users of the content or driving more leads. We have a client right now that wants to use podcasts as a replacement to their annual marketing conference.
TJ Bonaventura:
So instead of doing all their budget for one specific week where they're going to have all their potential leads coming into one spot, let's just do a continuous series where we're going to give them more awareness about what they're doing with their clients, what they're doing with the product, what the roadmap is, what the CEO is thinking about, so on and so forth. So I think it's really interesting. But I know that's not why we had you on the podcast. We had you here for a specific reason. I want Julian to take this one.
Julian Lewis:
So Sage, we brought you here today to talk about how to create an accessible podcast and we definitely want to dive into that. But I think first and foremost, we want to learn from you, what is accessibility and then also, why is the podcast industry well-positioned to have a major impact on that?
Sage Levene:
Yeah. It's a big question to answer what is accessibility, but we can flashback a little bit to actually 30 years ago, this year, the Americans with Disability Act was created. And that was more about infrastructure and architecture, so making sure there are ramps where there are stairs or elevators. And when it was created, the internet really wasn't a thing. It was very nascent, if not widespread access. So because of that, the web kind of got left behind. So in 1999, the web content accessibility guidelines were created and that was specifically about the web.
Sage Levene:
So it just means web accessibility, digital accessibility, all synonyms, it just means that everywhere technologies, apps, websites are accessible to people with disabilities, so simply that. And the reason you might not think about podcasts as included in web accessibility, but when you have a podcast, unless you're burning it to a cassette, it is only accessible online or on an app. So it's kind of this siloed medium, that if we don't apply the same guidelines, it's inaccessible. I was thinking, why is podcasting ripe to move this forward? I realized, I mean, there's a lot of different ways, but one of that I realized and it's kind of what we touched on before is that podcasting is an industry of self-learners.
Sage Levene:
So most of the people out there, they didn't study broadcasting, they've never done radio before. They were people who said, I have an idea. I'm going to research microphones, I'm going to think of a topic, I'm going to listen to other interviewers, figure out how to interview people or figure out what I'm just going to talk about myself, and they did it. So there are over a million podcasts. That's a million self-learners out there. So if every self learner just said, hey, I'm going to learn how to make my podcasts accessible, it would be the norm. And then I'm sure some of those overlap with web designers. And then maybe every web designer out there could learn to create a inaccessible website.
Sage Levene:
It's interesting to talk about because accessibility is really something that's not taught in school. I went to school for graphic design, and I took web design, and I wasn't taught anything about this, and most designers aren't. And even when you do like coding boot camps, they're not teaching you how to design accessibly. So it's something that we have to sort of get in the zeitgeist so that way people want to learn about it in school, and hopefully, almost like it's a little backwards, but then there will be schooling about it and accessible podcast will be taught in broadcast classes. So I think that's where I discovered the idea and, and as a podcaster, myself, I produce podcasts, it just seemed second nature that these should be accessible as well.
TJ Bonaventura:
I'm glad that you decided to write the article, and it's very timely because of the recent lawsuit that went against Gimlet Media. I don't know every detail with that lawsuit, but I know they were sued for not having their podcast be accessible, if I'm not mistaken. So I guess the big question is, how can podcasters make sure that their shows or episodes are accessible?
Sage Levene:
Right. So it's another big question. I think the number one way is transcripts. And I believe that is what Gimlet was sued. I think it was a class action suit, because they did not have their podcasts transcribed. And I get it. It's a long arduous process to transcribe your podcasts, especially if it's an hour long. And there's machine learning out there that can do it. But then again, there's the argument that if you don't correct that, go through, make sure you have names correct or the words correct, it's not fully accessible because you're not delivering the same experience.
Sage Levene:
So number one, is definitely transcribing. So that's what I recommend. And then the other things that kind of mentioned in the article, get a little more technical, like making sure that your artwork is accessible. So when you're on Spotify or Apple podcasts, and you're browsing for a new podcast, if you're just looking without ... You might search for a specific topic, or you just might say, hey, that looks interesting, just like when you're in a bookstore, and the thing that catches your eye is the artwork. So if your artwork isn't accessible, people are never going to listen to your podcast. People might not understand what inaccessible artwork is, but if the text is too small, if the color ratio is off.
Sage Levene:
So I think it's like 25% of men in America have red/green colorblindness. So if you're using those colors, everything will just look gray. Someone could just see a gray square and be like, I don't know what this podcast is and I'll never listen. So that's a great place to start. Another place is having your website be accessible. And that one is definitely a heavier lift because if you're just a podcaster out there, you might not know how to code an accessible website. But there's tons of organizations, tons of companies like my agency, there's tools you can use like Audio AI, which is an accessibility tool. They have like a managed service feature where they can basically tell you the recommendations to make your podcasts accessible. And luckily, with a podcast website, it might be a smaller site, you might not have hundreds of site pages. So it might not be a crazy lift there.
Sage Levene:
And then social media, and this is something I was talking about internally with my organization yesterday, is that we don't really think about social media as being another means that people with disabilities would want to use because it's visual. But people with screen readers can still use social media and you can employ alt text across all your social media. So if you look on Twitter, they have an option to add alt text, same with LinkedIn, same with Facebook. And you can also if you're posting a video, add transcripts to the video, you can embed them or you can upload the SRT file. So those are a lot of ways. I know that was a lot to digest in like two minutes. But that's the quick five steps that I would recommend.
Julian Lewis:
Yeah. Those are all great things. The moment you sent the article, I sent it directly to TJ, because he had come to me a while ago when we first started talking about like what we wanted StudioPod to be. And for me, I was really keen on the idea of making sure that we're building like a diverse company, in background, diverse in ideas, diverse in like the way people look and what industries are coming from. And he came to me and he talked to an experience that he had, [inaudible 00:16:42] speak to, but it was around accessibility. And for me, like working in digital advertising, I had heard it before. And I had more of an idea, like for the cover art, for example. And like how two colors blend together and making sure that you're conscious of that. But beyond that, like it wasn't my first thought. And so I'd love for TJ to kind of talk about that experience and why we decided that we really want to focus on it.
TJ Bonaventura:
Yeah. It first came to me when I had a friend who is suffering from a degenerative disease where she's losing her eyesight and hearing. And she came to me and says, "I love podcasts but I know I'm not going to be able to follow them in the future because they're just not accessible. Like I wish there was something that I could follow along with the transcript that would allow me to essentially read as I'm hearing it. And as I lose my hearing, I could still follow along." And right away, I sent it to Julian, like we got to think about something like this because it is so true. There is no true accessibility within podcasts.
TJ Bonaventura:
You did mention, Sage, that there are ways to do transcription through rev.com is a very popular one out there, which is machine learning. There's another tool out there called Descript, which will ... It's not meant for accessibility. But if you go through and read it and you're able to change the text as you listen, it then will allow anybody with that public link to be able to watch or read as they're listening as well and the words will follow along. So that's another way for our clients to potentially use it or anybody out there that wants to use it.
TJ Bonaventura:
I guess, with the recent lawsuit that came with Gimlet, I'm assuming that that class action lawsuit was strategic. They're the biggest podcast production company out there. They're owned by Spotify. Where do you think that this is going to potentially go? Do they think it's going to be more prevalent? Are companies thinking about this? Like, what are the trends going forward within this? In your opinion, of course.
Sage Levene:
Yeah. I think just like with web accessibility, to pull from that frame of reference, because it's kind of there's more history there, bigger companies were getting sued. Domino's, Beyonce, like people who couldn't access the websites. They were getting sued, which brought it to the forefront of a lot of people's ... A lot of companies, they were worried about the legality and getting sued and the monetary cost. So I think, just like that, podcast will start to follow along as well. I think corporations like Spotify, they're going to have to make everything accessible, including their app, which I don't know if it's fully accessible or not. Right now, I think they're working on having transcripts in app, I've read that. But they're going to have to kind of shape the way they're doing it.
Sage Levene:
They're investing billions of dollars in podcasting. So if they want to be this industry leader, they have actually a great chance here to set an example for every other app, every other company out there that's producing podcasts. So I think more and more people are going to kind of get on board with this. It's actually something that I wrote about an article as well that there isn't a fully accessible podcast software out there right now. There is no solution that is their media player, like the embedded one is accessible. Their back end with the analytics is accessible, their front end user website. So it's a market gap that someone could jump in and say, hey, this is the first successful podcast solution from A to Z. I think, Spotify, I guess technically they could be hosting since they have Anchor, but it's a little limited. They could be if they wanted to.
TJ Bonaventura:
I think that's a great, great point. I think Spotify or Apple, it's going to be one of them as the market leaders who are most podcast listeners are going to listen to their podcasts are going to need to make the changes. So those like my friend who has Usher syndrome to be able to read along or listen to along or be able to make sure that maybe it's a quick, like you said, you'd mentioned there's a tool that we'll be able to convert different podcasts to be accessible for those who are colorblind. There's got to be some sort of change.
TJ Bonaventura:
That's why I would imagine someone came after Gimlet or the class action suit came after Gimlet because they have to deal with Spotify and Spotify can hopefully make the change and they have the resources to do so. But until someone does, everyone's going to stay static, unfortunately, which I hope there's got to be networks to get involved, StudioPod got to get involved, different production companies got to get involved to really put it in the forefront of, let's make sure your podcast is going to be available to anyone out there.
Julian Lewis:
I do want to just take a quick step back with all your tips in terms of how we could add StudioPod, as we're working with different partners who are creating podcasts can start to help with the accessibility piece. So from a social media like promotion side of things like an audiogram with what's being voiced is being transcribed on there is one way to do so, if I heard you properly and then with the actual podcast itself. Would you recommend putting the transcription in the show notes or having it live like on the website so somebody can like listen on and kind of read? Because it gives like the format for a longer episode to be able to read the whole thing. I just want to make sure that we're clear on that so we can start doing that.
Sage Levene:
Yeah. That's a great question and not one I have a definitive answer to because I'm not sure that people would be reading along in app, but I don't know for sure. But as far as putting your transcript on the website, regardless of if you're putting in the app, also, you should definitely put on the website because there is so much SEO power. So for maybe just podcasters and not people in the marketing space, it's search engine optimization and it's basically functioning as a blog. So a lot of people, they don't really do full workups with their podcasts that describe it, they just put up the show notes. Because the search engine reads it, they read the content. And if I search for podcasting and accessibility, if you have the transcript, your blog could be served and people are reading that discovering you. So regardless of putting it in app, definitely put on your website.
Sage Levene:
I've been wondering about that a lot myself if there is a value to putting it in-app. And it's something I'd love to have some more like user research to see if some people would be interested in that. I do think that apps might start delivering that themselves. Because all the apps, I mean Google, they're transcribing all the podcasts anyway. You see, if you search for something, something podcasts, we now have a podcast carousel on Google, which we never had. You have to be very deliberate about what you're searching for though, so I'd have to search for accessible podcast podcast, which is I guess it's a little confusing. And then this podcast might come up.
Sage Levene:
But eventually, if I'm just searching for podcast accessibility, you might also have the podcast carousel there. So there's a lot of stuff happening behind the scenes there in terms of transcripts as far as accessibility and as SEO. And then another great point that I hadn't even thought about but I was discussing, and it is in the article, is that people who aren't native English speakers. If you're an English speaking podcast, they can ... It helps them. It helps them familiarize themself with the language, and it helps them follow along and understand.
Sage Levene:
A lot of people, I think, when they think about podcasting, they think about it's an audio medium. Why would someone who can't hear want to listen to a podcast? Well, it's not as black and white, it's just like, this person can't hear. There's all different levels of hearing disabilities, and additionally, people who have cognitive disabilities. If you like to read along, as you listen to digest content, that's another reason to put it there. So there is really no answer to that question, but it's important. That's all I could say.
TJ Bonaventura:
The one thing that I think there ... I mean, there's an, I don't want to say an easy sell, because I'm not a product manager at Spotify or anything like that, is they are releasing a video to be accessible or available within their app. So that's a good way where maybe if you're doing video, you can transcribe it like you would do an audiogram but it would just be more of a longer form piece of content. Or instead if you don't want to film yourself, you just put up the transcript right there. So as you would listen to almost like a music video on YouTube that has just lyrics, you'd be listening to a podcast that has just a talk track of everyone that's participating in that particular show.
TJ Bonaventura:
So I think there are ways that people can be creative to make sure that they are accessible. But again, it goes back to the point of making sure that these players are accessible themselves. So that way, the networks, the producers, the editors, and everyone else can follow along to make sure that they are accessible as well.
Sage Levene:
Yeah.
Julian Lewis:
Yeah. And to give like a tangible way of like that we've creating our audiograms just to help people, like TJ mentioned the tool, Descript. So once we have the audio from this podcast, we upload it into Descript and transcribes it. And it's a way that we can edit it in line. But the beautiful thing about it is like when I create an audiogram, I take a segment of it, I paste it in its own composition and I do a little bit of editing. And then I essentially have the ability, and I'm pointing at a screen that's not here, but I have the ability to download not only audio, but also to your point, Sage, the SRT file.
Julian Lewis:
And so I can use that to create an audiogram in a tool like veed.io and/or, as you mentioned, some of the social platforms are allowing for you to insert that SRT file as you're creating the post. And so it's really that simple to start. There's definitely a long way for us to go in terms of like transcribing the full episodes and putting it on our website and making sure that we have the capacity to do so. But starting is like the key and then continuing as technology evolves to make it easier for you to make your podcast more accessible.
Sage Levene:
Yeah. And I think another kind of good tip is YouTube, which you mentioned before. You can upload, let's say you make a YouTube, the dimensions for YouTube of your artwork, you upload that with your episode audio. YouTube does have an automatic transcription feature, you put it in, and you can fix it there. That's also another SEO way because YouTube is the second largest search engine. So you put it there, people are discovering your podcast. So there are ways that help podcast discoverability and also help accessibility. So it's kind of a no-brainer for the creators out there. And I think, Julian, what you said about starting is really important, because if you're a podcast and you have 5 seasons and 100 episodes, it seems really daunting, because there's a whole backlog. But just start with the next episode and start with the next episode.
Sage Levene:
I've heard of other podcasts that fans, they love it so much, they'll transcribe things for you. I mean, I'm not saying do like a paid and exposure type. But sometimes people are interested because they want to get involved. And when they hear it's a mission that you have to make it accessible, they want to help. So there's definitely ways to engage your community if maybe you don't have the time to sit down and transcribe 700 hours of content.
Julian Lewis:
Sage, this has been all extremely valuable information. TJ and I have action items that we're definitely going to take from this. And we'd love to hear any other advice that you'd love to give the curious and scrappy podcaster, who's our audience.
Sage Levene:
Yeah. I mean, I think we covered a lot of ground here. So definitely check out the article. Not to plug myself necessarily, but I do think it lays it out in a more linear fashion that might be easier to digest. But if you're just out there doing a podcast by yourself, find a community, find maybe people who are passionate about also creating an accessible podcast and brainstorm with them. I think in general, if I had overall podcast advice, it's quality. That might sound a little harsh, but you don't have to release all of your early episodes. You could do 50 test episodes and then start releasing them. Because there are a million podcasts and the barrier to entry is low, but the barrier to discoverability is high.
Sage Levene:
So it's really exciting to create a podcast, especially when you have something you're passionate about. But you want to make sure you're doing it justice. So if you're going to be the only podcaster talking about this really niche thing, make sure it's a great podcast. Accessibility is part of that. So it should all be part of this grand plan, of quality content, quality audio, and making sure everyone can enjoy it.
TJ Bonaventura:
Amazing. Sage, thank you. How can anyone reach out to you? Obviously, you have the article, but specifically, if someone wants to have a further conversation or reach out to you, Morey Creative Studio, how can I do that?
Sage Levene:
Sure. So I'm actually not a huge social media person myself, which is kind of funny. So I don't really have personal social, but you can definitely connect with me on LinkedIn. If you just search for me Sage Levene or at moreycreative.com. And I would love if everyone took a listen to our podcasts. We have three in house podcasts that I'm very proud of. So we have one called Inbound & Down, which is we talk about accessibility a lot. We talk about marketing, SEO, design, anything in that kind of greater industry.
Sage Levene:
We have one called Grow For Good, which talks to owners of for-profit businesses who are doing good in the world. So we've talked to the CEO of HubSpot, we talked to the CEO of Bombas, the CEO of American Organic Energy. So a lot of these really great companies who have really good social mission, so it is also kind of relevant to accessibility because it's all about inclusion and doing good in the world.
Sage Levene:
And then we have our third podcast called News Beat, which is a social justice podcast. And it combines hip hop and news. So they interview different scholars, different journalists, any expert. And they have local, usually to New York hip hop artists create lyrics specifically about that topic. So their stuff is so engaging and fun. I work on and I help. I don't produce it specifically, so I feel okay to like really tout it because I'm a fan more than I am just like nepotism, it's my podcasts. But they're doing great stuff there. So that's how you can find me.
Julian Lewis:
That's awesome. And while you're doing that, I think you got a subscriber at least For News Beat, but I'm sure you got one for the other ones, and you'll have one in me as well. So Sage, thank you again so much.
Sage Levene:
Thank you. It was my pleasure.
TJ Bonaventura:
In this episode, we talked about the Usher syndrome. And so I want to give a quick shout out to the Usher 1F Collaborative which is a patient-led research network. I mentioned my friend, Dori, she has Usher syndrome, and we recently did a fundraiser for her at my local gym. It was such a fun experience. And so if anyone wants to go and support Usher syndrome, they can go to usher1f.org. Julian and I, on behalf of StudioPod, will be making a donation. But again, if you want to go and donate to that cause, it's super awesome. Again, it's patient-led and it's usehr1f.org. That's U-S-H-E-R-1-F.O-R-G. Usher1f.org.
Julian Lewis:
Thank you. PodOn.
TJ Bonaventura:
Every episode of the PodOn Podcast is produced and edited by StudioPod Media. For more information about our work and our clients, go to studiopodsf.com.
Julian Lewis:
Shout out to Gary Oakland for the fire track.
TJ Bonaventura:
Gary O.